Official Luthiers Forum!

Yesterday I received 2 of my guitars back from Tony F.... They look
awesome.
I will post pics later.
The bad news. In shipping, the 12 string neck was cracked!!!!!!
I have been making stacked heels, and it broke in the middle of the heel, not
at a glue line.
Can I just glue it back together and refinish it????? The body is cocobolo and
so Tony usually colors the neck a bit orangy to blend with the cocobolo.
Adding more color and refinishing probably would hide the line. Do you all
think that is OK or do I have to make a new neck
Andy

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

I would glue it, if it comes out perfect, id go with it, if I could see it, id do a new neck.
maybe a little darker finish

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Clearly the rough handling!!!!! It is an SJ 12 string in an Ameritage case.   
That case is a bit large, but it was padded all around to prevent shifting.
Part of the problem is the neck rests firmly and there is a slight gap below
the heel and I am sure it got dropped or something. Whiplash effect????

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Andy,

I build with stacked heels too. On a steel string build, I accidentally busted the heel off after I'd finished carving the heel, but before mounting the neck on the guitar. Like yours, it broke along the grain. I glued it back together with Titebond, and the glue line was invisible. Hope you'll have the same luck.

BTW, is Tony F a member here, and what does he charge to finish guitars (if I might ask)?

Best,

Michael
Michael McBroom38883.4946180556

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Live to Play, Play to Live

This thread has COMPLETELY made up my mind. I was going to ship the 12 fret dread back to Tony for a freshening up, after my fumble fingers did there normal trick whilst doing the bridge and fretboard extension. But I have decided ill pay Tony a visit in person.
The Ameritage case for this guitar arrived yesterday and its built like a tank! But after your experience Andy, ill feel better just making the two hour drive.

Hesh, you got anything that needs to be picked up? Or dropped off for that matter.

---by the way --

Ill be peeking in all the boxes hanging in the spray booth,   

PS, it could be worse, read THIS!

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

[QUOTE=Michael McBroom]

BTW, is Tony F a member here, and what does he charge to finish guitars
(if I might ask)?

Best,

Michael
[/QUOTE]

He is not a member as far as I know, and he does not do the online thing
very much. He does not even have an e-mail address (you got to go
through his wife if you want e-mail)

Call him up at 616-842-4114 and ask him about his services. They are
very reasonable, and he does a awesome job. And be sure to tell him I
sent ya so you can be harassed for knowing such a goofball ;)

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

oh and to answer the question andy... yes you can glue it back and re-
finish so long as the break is very clean (ie: no chunks or big fibers
missing) I've had this happen to me a too, and I re-glued and finished,
and it worked fine.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Andy,
   I really doubt that the heel broke due to any whiplash effect in shipping. Being the shorter of the two lengths on the neck and the more massive by alot, the heel is unlikely to experience enough violent whip to cause a crack like that. The headstock is more likey to, but with no tension being apllied by strings, that's even unlikely during shipment.

   I would blame it more on the extreme temperature and humidity changes experienced by the neck during shipping if it was air shipped.

   A stacked heel is also far more prone to breakage than a one piece heel on a quartersawn neck worked from a billet simply because of the lack of grain continuity running from fingerbaord to heel cap.

Just my opinion, but who knows unless we're inside the case with the guitar.

   I've repaired loads of heel cracks over the years and the very wide majority were on constructed heels or stacked heels.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher

Agreed about regluing.
After all, your stacked heel is made up of lots of glue lines already. What's one more? AS LONG as it's clean--just like John said.

SK

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Lance
It is not fair that you can just drive over to Tony's.
That would be a 3 day drive for me!!!
Andy

BTW, you can peak in my latest box that I am sending today...The dog
cutaway is on its way....hopefully safely

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

   You all need to check out this thread over at the AGF. This poor guy had a beautiful guitar literally run over by a Fed Ex truck. I is pretty obvious that it was done on purpose by a few bored and less than intelligent employees.

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8 1485

   I'm looking forward to seeing if FedEx pulls their, "We'll give you $500.00 and call it even." solution to it.

    Be sure to look closely at the orientation of the tire tracks on the box that the guitar was in...amazing!!

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Wow ,That is really sad about the destroyed Martin by Fedx. I'll bet they do try the 500 buck thing Kevin! That guy should really go after them. There's A lot of good advice on that thread. Incredible

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Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755

O.K. am I the only one who didn't get the story about the destroyed Martin... That link brought me to the AGF but a thread talking about a site (www.usedtaylors.com) devoted to bad mouthing taylors or something to that effect... ???

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

Try This


http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8 1485

OH MY GOD!!! What kind of crazed maniac would do such a thing!!! Was it like, 'Hey, lets drive over this package for fun!'... I seriously doubt that a FedEx employee would do that, unless he was cruising to get fired.

I think it would be more like the package was left in the repairman's driveway and he inadvertently drove over it. He then blamed FedEx...

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

    One can't forget the obvious though! I worked in the grocery business when I was young and did the night crew thyang!

    One panic stop!! It's all over!! The whole load is all over your package like a gorilla on an American Tourister! You have thousands of pounds shifting around. Wrong place/wrong time and it's.... Smaaaash-O-rini!!

    I've seen loads coming in, literally, dripping! I watched a 18 wheeler make a panic stop, trailer brakes and everything! See it once, and it explains everything!! 40 tons flying around like a bad Go-bar!

To quote Lord Vader - "Impressive"!

   

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

Alain,

    There are two reputation sinvolved in the case of tje Crushed Martin...that of a respected repairman who is well known for his quality work and careful treatment and handling of guitars in his posession and that of FeEx who has an established occurance rat along with all of their competitors for smashing, crushing or damaging packages in their posession.

   The repairman has no reason to lie or anything to hide, but would stand to lose a substantial portion f his reapir income of he would. FedEx, on the the other hand denies every possible claim set against them for recovery of losses caused or suffered whil items are in their care and won't be hurt at all by this incident since they are one of the very few shipping alternatives available.

   One has a good reputation and the other has something else. One has their customers bring their prized guitars to them to care fpr them by choice since repairmen are many in our country. The other has a huge portion of the shipping marketshare mostly because people have so few options to consider when shipping. The lesser of several evils rule would apply nicely in the shipping industry. FedEx will do no investigating to pinpoint the person responsible for the loss of that guitar and would never fire anyone since they just just don't care enough to find out who it was.

   I'd hate to have someone say that I was lying if it happened while being shipped to my shop. I tink you'd find much more integrity intact in that small repair shop than in all of the FedEx corporation. The lying will more likely flow from them than the repair person.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Kevin

I agree with your point about the most likely culprit being the haulier.

In there defence I would argue that they probably move thousands of packages both domestically and internationaly without incident. I would also add that it is possible to have stuff shipped in a more delicate manner. I used to work for a company that moved chemicals around the world which had the potential to cause a serious incident. these were moved safely and without incident. This was achieved by using specialist hauliers with highly trained staff.

The downside !, the cost you can expect to pay rates that are roughly 5 times higher than those of Fedex etc.

THe problem I see in many industries is the companies take people pay them poorly, don't invest in them, and treat them like commodities, and then expect that they will be dutiful and diligent. Why ? because the consumer wants everything cheap and the shareholders wish to make massive returns for doing nothing.

[QUOTE=Kevin Gallagher] Alain,

    There are two reputation sinvolved in the case of tje Crushed Martin...that of a respected repairman who is well known for his quality work and careful treatment and handling of guitars in his posession and that of FeEx who has an established occurance rat along with all of their competitors for smashing, crushing or damaging packages in their posession.

   The repairman has no reason to lie or anything to hide, but would stand to lose a substantial portion f his reapir income of he would. FedEx, on the the other hand denies every possible claim set against them for recovery of losses caused or suffered whil items are in their care and won't be hurt at all by this incident since they are one of the very few shipping alternatives available.

   One has a good reputation and the other has something else. One has their customers bring their prized guitars to them to care fpr them by choice since repairmen are many in our country. The other has a huge portion of the shipping marketshare mostly because people have so few options to consider when shipping. The lesser of several evils rule would apply nicely in the shipping industry. FedEx will do no investigating to pinpoint the person responsible for the loss of that guitar and would never fire anyone since they just just don't care enough to find out who it was.

   I'd hate to have someone say that I was lying if it happened while being shipped to my shop. I tink you'd find much more integrity intact in that small repair shop than in all of the FedEx corporation. The lying will more likely flow from them than the repair person.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars [/QUOTE]

   Kevin, I certainly didn't mean offence or to cast doubt over the repairman's good name. There was very little mentioned of the repairman's reputation.

   It just blows my mind to think that someone would drive over a package and then deliver it in that state.

   I only offered that scenario as a possible answer for what happened. I came home once to find a package (my access guitar cases) lying in my driveway. True, I have a long driveway, but still, I guess this shows the kind of dedication and devotion of those large carrier employees... I could of easily driven over the box had I not been paying attention.

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

[quote]It may have even been terrorism.......running for cover...[/quote]

Yes! I would avoid the mujahadin guitar repair!
(or is it spelled muchhidin?)

_________________
Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)